S2, Ep. 5 - Now Innovating

May 1, 2024

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Welcome to Responsible Disruption, the podcast that takes you on a captivating journey through the realm of social innovation and design. I'm your host Sydney Johnson, and today we're talking with Julia MacGregor, the host of University of Calgary's Now Innovating podcast. It's a podcast crossovers episode. Julia is a senior specialist in the office of the Vice President, Research at the University of Calgary and is seasoned communicator with a passion for crafting compelling narratives. As the host of the Now Innovating Podcast, Julia uncovers the journeys of University of Calgary researchers as they propel their discoveries forward from conception to implementation, ultimately creating impactful change, Julia. Welcome to the show.


Hi, Sydney. Thank you.

00:58 SYDNEY: So let's start with the obvious question. Can you tell us about the Now innovating podcast? What is it about?

01:02 JULIA: Oh well, for those who like podcasts, but also, you know, want to watch a video version of things. I have expanded it. So it's not just the podcasting it's a digital series because I took over this lovely podcast from an ex-broadcaster, you might know him, Jordan Witzel. He's young global weatherman. Funny guy, he was in my role before me. He started this whole series with Prima, who was a nurse entrepreneur. They did 46 or 36 episodes in a short time and then Jordan went to Med school and then I got his job and I was like, well, I can't just in good conscience take over. A podcast feel focusing that someone who actually knows what broadcasting is does. Big shoes to fill, so I was like, you know what? I'm going to make this harder on myself and make it video forward chat show. But we also released it as a podcast, so it's really exciting because I think this is increasing the accessibility of it. So you can kind of see some of the cool stuff that these researchers are doing. If it's like tech or you can see the lab side things as well. Also if like people need captions, we have that component, but it's a, it's a really fun journey and it's just exciting to chat with people that are way smarter than me.

02:08 SYDNEY: Right. I know the feeling. That's awesome. So, yeah, by the way, just for our listeners, everything will be in the show notes. So you'll be able to have a link to those videos and of course, the podcast episodes from Now Innovating. What kind of person do you think would be interested in Now Innovating? What are they going to hear if they go there?

02:22 JULIA: If you're interested in understanding how research really can be moved to make an impact? So if you're interested about starting your own company or commercializing your discoveries or even really what does that process entail or what are the importance of partnerships and steps you have to take along the way there learning about different resources that are available to support innovators and entrepreneurial thinkers in the university and the Calgary community abroad like that. I think you just said, learning cool things. I've learned so much doing the show alone. I didn't know a lot of things about energy and now I can talk about some things that are energy related.

03:02 SYDNEY: Awesome. Yeah, I again, I completely relate. I think it's obvious to the audience perhaps why we're doing this process. You're deeply immersed in the world of translating research into stories. You know impact, but also you're telling the story of what happened. Yeah. How do you see storytelling as a catalyst for connecting academia to broader audiences?

03:32 JULIA: I think the storytelling is important because I think a lot of academics, too. Even seeing themselves as innovators in the first place, recognizing that what they're doing is innovation or what they're doing is important because I think they get so head down into the day-to-day work, sometimes they don't realize. This does have an impact and you could translate it out here or  people should know about the great work that you're doing because then I think it's just boring, no that your journey and your experiences and what you've gone through to do this, is so interesting to people. So I love that. They're just trying to get it more accessible. Audience out there to learn about research and what it can do for people.

04:12 SYDNEY: Yeah, it sounds like it's just as much about the researcher as it is about the communities. So that's cool. Can you give us an example of how academic research can evolve into impact, getting to the meat of it?

04:19 JULIA: Yeah, so these examples of people have talked to Now Innovating because obviously they're fresh in my mind. And you know, I've talked to them. So there's a couple really cool examples. Kathy sitter is a faculty member in social work, and her research is all about multi sensory storytelling. So how can you make research more accessible by involving people you know if they are no divergent or you know you can't you have a vision issues or you know you're just how can you actually incorporate these storytelling into pieces. You do a lot of researches fill out a survey. Or just do a normal interview. So how can we capture these experiences and show them differently so she got funding to build this whole beautiful brand new multi sensory storytelling studio that has different ways to capture this piece. So that's really cool and tangible that she's just gone through here and she's done work with youth, other members of the community just bring this out. So her work is really excellent. And she's a star. So I have an episode talking to her, if you will learn more about multi sensory storytelling. Now another cool one is from the faculty of Arts. These researchers have built sensors to detect methane emissions. The thing you can’t see or smell. It's this deadly or not deadly. But you know it's really contributing to climate change in this piece so they have developed sensors in arts and they've licensed this technology out to companies to actually drive around sites and tell them where those methane leaks and everything they do is always still connected to research projects. So they're training students. They're taking that data back to their lab. They're refining the sensors, having that actual day-to-day impact of helping companies try to figure out where these like methane leaks are that are happening in their in their processes and stuff. So those are two quick things there that are neat and are really going on.

06:00 SYDNEY: Yeah, I mean, I love how you gave me tangible example and it also feels like those are world class examples too. Like if there is no technology that currently exist to sense that methane in that example. That's really exciting.

06:20 JULIA: It's super cool and I think it's very important to you. I am showcasing these researcher stories on the show that it's not always just, it's a tangible to like it doesn't have a technology. It's like it's like are you creating a service like So what doctor Sitter is doing too is like a way to like, you know, and innovation and actually capturing research stories like, that's amazing. And that's like fantastic social innovation. And where the pomelo is actually the group of the other company for the methane researchers... it's very tangible tech, but again bring it back to research so like it's not just... it can be service oriented. It can be technology oriented. It can be policy oriented. Like all these different avenues to create impact.

06:58 SYDNEY: Yeah, that's a great point is that something that I say a lot, I'm sure I've said it on this show is innovation isn't just technology or digital, it also exists in all these other places like policy is a great example of something that people don't often think about. One way that academic research is often measured, or like the impact or success, is through publications. Can you talk about that a little bit? What's your opinion there?

07:33 JULIA: Oh, yeah, that's definitely a piece in all academia, that's when the ivory tower mentality comes from, academics or just creating knowledge and only other academics can use. And no one can do this piece so that, the University of Calgary, we've signed on to the San Francisco Declaration on research impact. So this is actually a kind of global initiative to like look at other ways to assign impact in hiring practice of faculty. So promotion that way, so not just like oh, I published in nature. Or these other high impact journals. And like that's what's giving value to the researcher. It's like also looking at like how are you engaging with community in your research and these pieces? So yeah, just not assigning to just like, oh, I published and I published this really high impact journal that that's all the value that I have as a researcher. So that's that's very exciting to about like looking. Yeah looking for actual value to communities and evaluating researchers outputs in different ways than just yeah. Now cool. Let's hope we read it.

08:23 SYDNEY: Yeah. And as well, especially because some journals are behind a paywall, like you're not going to. The community might not necessarily access that.

08:28 JULIA: Oh, yeah. The pay to play for publishing itself is just ridiculous.

08:37 SYDNEY: That's a whole other podcast episode perhaps? What are other ways to measure impacts like that you've been exploring or that you're really excited about?

08:46 JULIA: That's a good question. Yeah, other than, like, how are you translating or bringing your research to the community or the people that could use it? So, are you making it accessible? Like, I know in another way too. Are you actually telling people about what you're doing? Like, if you found this amazing evidence-based thing that's going to help healthcare policy or practice, can we go there? Is it looking at presentations? Sure. Is it storytelling? Things like this? Is it going on our shows or our podcast and telling people about it? I think creating awareness to those pieces. I think that's another great way to measure impact. But I think just, yeah, really that again, like, how are we influencing policy, how are we influencing practice, how are we changing? How are we getting our research out there to the people that it matters to most? And that they understand what the research is.

09:32 SYDNEY: Yeah. Translate it in a way that makes sense. It sounds like there's a lot of possibilities there that we don't even know yet exactly all the ways that that can happen. So as I mentioned before, innovation looks different in different fields and goes across transcends several fields. In your experience, how does the nature of innovation vary between those disciplines? Are there common threads? Are there vast differences?

10:00 JULIA: Yeah, I think that's a key point to mention. I'm not only talking to researchers from medicine or science, right? Like, how are you recognizing innovation in other faculties, like the social work example or the faculty of arts? I think it is a challenge because STEM-based innovation is obviously what is really talked about the most, right? Like, I've discovered a new drug or I've made this cool computer software thing that does this. But it's like, again, what are those service-based frameworks that can be applied to the community to support them and organization development, even like access again? Like understanding the data that exists for people to inform their own policy and practice. So I think that's like I've had a lot of conversations in one of my episodes with Sandra Davidson, who's the Dean of nursing, and a lot about just getting even working nurses to recognize that they are innovators too, and they're seeing data, things that need to be changed and addressed in their practice. Right. And so you got those people on the front lines that you know. We know change needs to happen and like, how can they change enhance that practice or that procedure or like find a solution? So I think that's I think they're not recognizing that they are innovators in that space because that's a piece like in traditional academia too, right? It's not there. You don't get a faculty position like, "Okay, great. Now you're going to innovate, and you got to teach and you got to research, you do all this stuff." This is off the side of the desk, right? So it's kind of trying to create that culture at the University of Calgary for people to allow the time and offer resources to them to actually understand what that means to move in the innovation process or to be entrepreneurial.

11:35 SYDNEY: How important is fostering that innovation mindset in an academic institution like the university?

11:42 JULIA: Absolutely huge. It's so huge. And that's what I do. Like, the storytelling too is just like people to recognize, like, "Hey, that person's doing that. I'm doing something. Hey, like I'm a postdoc. I'm also doing something cool like this, like maybe I should look at these resources to support me, to give me more training, you know, in understanding what the innovation process is or what steps do I need to take or if I want to license my technology or my invention or I want to make a startup company or I want to even just understand how to get this to the community. Like what are the steps I need to take?" And a lot of these pieces that we do, so we have a huge ecosystem of innovation support at the university, including those program training pieces. There's the involved to innovate program, which is for people who are just kind of getting the idea of like, it's like a, I think it's a six-week program. They're going to, I'm probably misquoting my own program. I don't run it. Whether you want to write programs so it's meant for people that are kind of just like research staff, graduate students, faculty members, and just kind of like, you know, "I think I have something here that could be an innovation like what are?" And so it's going through like a structure like this is what all this process looks like, but also looking at it from a social innovation lens. We have a bunch of mentorship pieces too. So there's a Translate Research to Action, which is actually a really hands-on pilot program that my colleague Tara is leading, who's the manager of the Social Innovation Initiative at the Office of Vice President Research, and she and her colleague at the social innovation hub, Joanna, are doing amazing work just like mentoring one-on-one with these faculty members, like how to actually move again, how to create a social enterprise and like how to do some of these. These are so again like STEM commercialization-driven pathways and mentorship is huge. There's several programs too, where you've got faculty mentor. The academic entrepreneurs and residents is a piece where they're all, you know, faculty members that have started companies and they've had learnings and they, like, do very like dedicated one-on-one mentorship with these teams that come in, who are, you know, again looking to translate research-driven evidence to, you know, add a solution piece super, super huge and cool. So it's really again, making people feel comfortable in wanting to pursue innovation in the first place. Like, I don't know what it is, you know?

13:53 SYDNEY:  That sounds like it’s outside of my wheelhouse. I just want to do my research. Yeah. I just want to do the thing that maybe I'm more comfortable with?

14:01 JULIA: Yeah, exactly. So it's always like, how can we, building that comfort and culture, recognition of what you're doing, innovation and then where do you go from there cause it is such a complex ecosystem.

14:10 SYDNEY: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. First you have to recognize yourself as an innovator. And then the university supports are there to help you with the Step two, which is OK. I believe you now what? So I'm super interested because, you know, the University of Calgary is known for innovation. This is a podcast about social innovation. And I know that United Way has collaborated with the University of Calgary on, among many things, Uceed. And you did a podcast focused on that. So maybe you can tell listeners a little about Uceed.

14:47 JULIA:  Yeah. So Uceed, it's actually really unique in Canada. It's a series of early-stage investment funds that are backed by philanthropic support at the University of Calgary and then it's managed by Innovate Calgary, which is our tech transfer office there. So there are six funds to help, you know, really bridge research to business investments range from like $30,000 to $300,000. And their funds, including the Social Impact Fund, which is, you know, really made possible by the generosity of the United Way of Calgary and area really. And that's like looking at, you know, creating, supporting social finance, supporting a growing system of social purpose organizations. You know, who are really focused on creating positive change in our communities, and that's the social impact fund. So I spoke with Lori who is the CEO of Life MD, which is, So Lauren used to be a research manager at the University of Calgary for part of this, like, large research collaboration, looking at digestive diseases and those pieces. And she's collaborated with physicians and they have, they've, you know, they've taken this evidence that they have. And they have like created their own online social enterprise platform to help patients or help guide people who do have like digestive issues and pieces and understanding like diet plans and actually talking to real, you know, physicians and healthcare providers and dietitians and customized meal plans and stuff like that. So it's really cool and they have received investment from the social impact fund.

16:09 SYDNEY: Amazing. Yeah. It's interesting to me how I can imagine that maybe you knew a little bit about Uceed before, but then you do a podcast episode like this and you learn so much more. Is that true?

16:18 JULIA: So much more like, I don't know, a lot about investment too. So even just like learning. So I talked to Lori from the side of her social enterprise, and then chatting with the people that operate and manage Uceed in Calgary, and it's like, "Oh, you're your business folks and you know what's up?" Like, yeah, just even the appropriate language of like received investment rather than like, "Oh, they got money 'cause I keep thinking it's like a fund, right? Like it's like, you know, like research grant money." But no, it's like it's a proper investment and they. Apparently, the Uceed Lauren spoke about this a lot too, from her experience of receiving investment from Uceed. The whole CT is fantastic and it's not just like, "Okay, you've gotten your investment, you're out the door." We're leaving behind like they are like again, very hands-on and help offer mentorship and like helping you reach your next goals on your investment journey for receiving more funds.

16:55 SYDNEY: Amazing. They want you to be successful.

17:05 JULIA: Exactly. Yeah, they're not. Just like, OK, here you go check box.

17:09 SYDNEY: Yeah, I think that's something else I've observed about the Calgary ecosystem too. It's like it is very supportive. It is very, you know, wanting to help others to achieve their goals with their different social enterprises or whatever it may be. Or their research and impact of that research. Well, I think one of the really interesting things about our conversation, Julia and being able to have you on this episode is that we both have innovation related podcasts and so I thought it might be fun to give the listeners a little bit of a glimpse into what it's like to have a podcast like this, and maybe what some of the different things that you've experienced with being host. So maybe you can share an example of a time when you know there was spontaneity in a podcast episode that you did and it led to an interesting place.

17:59 JULIA:  Like, you know, you prepare your questions. And like so much, sometimes things that they just say that you're like, wait, I didn't even know. So I do so much background research on all my guests and they're really, how much can you find? What do they have that's public? And then just I love just finding that like kernel and then like going off on a tangent it could be tangent but you know they just like just do a deep dive. More like I didn't know engage in this program or like talking to someone that's like oh I didn't realize like you were really successful in this pitch competition at one point or yeah like or just all your learnings were like hey I secretly like I'm actually a serious play like Lego facilitator. Like one of my previous guests to you, which we got to play with Lego later. Which is also really fun.

18:35 SYDNEY: Yeah, that works well for the video format.

18:40 JULIA: Yeah, it's very nice. Seeing all the cool stuff but like a lot of it to you, like you find like you have the discussion first and you're trying to really understand the research and then I will, but I'll go into the lab and also I'll see what they're actually doing. And then yeah, and that really just helps, helps me understand and how to tell their story better to you and like really understand the impact of what their work can do. And like the amazing postdocs and graduate students that are all like, supporting these faculty as well. Like, it's just like it's such a great system. It doesn't matter how much research I do on someone, I figure out something new in the conversation. Yeah, which I think is the point or long times when I realize I can't say some words that are especially like more research terms or like I did one episode was like in our like photovoltaics like and I was trying to do it like do the enter the episode. I kept saying the word stop. My guest, he's Brazilian, his English is better than mine. He's been in Canada 2 years and he's like, "No, we're gonna say it this way." And I'm like, "I'm so I can't even say the subject of our episode right now." So just You know, embarrassing, but I think I made him feel better, too. Of like, "Yeah, feel like less like this. Like, oh, no, this host is You know she can fail too."

19:41 SYDNEY: Yeah, exactly. And it's uncomfortable and yeah we all make mistakes in the same way that anyone can be an innovator, you know anyone can definitely be on the podcast. What are some of your favorite topics that you've covered? Things that you really have enjoyed doing with this series?

20:04 JULIA: So I think part of this was coming out of my comfort zone too because previously, like, I worked for 10 years in health research communications, and then now coming to like a series where I'm talking about all innovation that's not just life sciences piece. So really, I think I mentioned like talking about energy like we were supporting content leading up to the global energy show last year. And I went and did these like mini kind of energy burst episodes. So I went to go talk to the guy with the organic solar cells. Really cool. Talking to another group where they're looking at like clean, like using green hydrogen and like, you know, creating better battery life pieces, they like, these are things that I didn't know anything about. There are so many amazing innovators. That's really what it is. I didn't know anything about energy, and now I know a little bit more about it.

20:41 SYDNEY: Yeah. And then, you know a little bit about it.

20:43 JULIA: I know there's a thing called pink hydrogen.

20:47 SYDNEY: Well, I didn't know that so absolutely. It does highlight something I think that's important to do with this kind of work as well is bring that understanding of you hear something that's like a top line like carbon capture and you're like, yeah, that's perfect, but it's actually much more complex. Yeah. You know, good or bad. And I think that's true of most innovations that there's the exciting highlight side. And there's also the, like, what does it mean to get there and what is maybe the negative consequences of that too, and shows like yours can help tease a little bit of that out. I can imagine. Do you have any episodes coming up that you're really excited about?

21:29 JULIA:  Well, actually, so I'm recording tomorrow. So there's this program at the Hunter Hub for Entrepreneurial Thinking called the Summer Accelerator. So it's kind of again like if you kind of got to start up kind of dedicated. again, like over the summer, they give you some investment money. You have office space and they're giving you programming. So I'm talking to three folks who have companies that were part of that last year and one is carbon capture. It's actually really cool because they're that same molecular saying the wrong thing, it's MOF. But like using it for breweries. Yeah. So like you, so they can reuse the energy for in brewing production and also you know like stop the carbon that's coming out of that. Yeah. Very cool. A guy who has developed his own, like, antimicrobial and has started his own company. So looking at antibiotic resistant. And you know, you know, helping health there.

22:16 SYDNEY: Still very important in 2024.

22:17 JULIA: Yes, yes, still very important. And then another company that you know they've it's looking at flow of pipeline monitoring I think of like how the guest. So I'm going to learn more tomorrow for sure but I'm excited for that episode.

22:32 SYDNEY: And just seeing where they are now.

22:34 JULIA: Exactly. It's all really cool again, like all the all the research and coming out of here is just. I'm always in shock of like all the cool stuff that's going on, but I can't even keep it all in my head.

22:45 SYDNEY: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Maybe that is a good segue into my next question, which is what role do you think that those conversations play in uncovering those insights or fostering innovation and keeping that going?

22:58 JULIA: I think it's just. I think it's good reflection on them too because I think when I'm chatting with them and asking them about like, well, where are you on your journey now? And like, really what has surprised you the most? And like when you started this, when you were like, oh, hey, I had this research and now I'm like, you know, I've now have a startup company like, what was like, the biggest thing you didn't expect to happen, right? Like, that's a huge shift. Again, we can't like these people doing this a lot of time off the side of their desk, right. Or they're just grads that like finish their PhD and now like, okay, now I'm going to use this and move forward. So I think that like yeah, just that kind of again that self-reflection for themselves to like be like hey, you know, I've really accomplished a lot. Yeah, this is this is really cool and again helping them kind of get the key points of their story I think will be really applicable to others to like learn from their own journeys.

23:43 SYDNEY: And people care. They're interested in what you're doing?

23:49 JULIA:  I always hear this often when I interview guests because asking about partnership and partnerships are so key in all of these ventures. Really like finding the right partners and talking about how supportive Calgary is and even outside of the innovation Calgary ecosystem, like the yeah, the Calgary like platform, Calgary, there's lots of pieces like Social Impact Lab. It's all like all these great partners that exist that can support you moving forward and so many other like funding ventures too, like move you forward, so it's all very exciting.

24:18 SYDNEY: Well, that's so awesome. I want to also try with this episode. I thought it would be fun for us to play a little innovation related game because I get to use you as a bit of a Guinea pig with some podcast experiences, so we're going to try something different. Julia and I have each prepared two truths and a lie related to innovation related statements. I don't know what hers are and she doesn't know what mine are, but we hope you'll play along with us as we try to figure out where is the lie in the statements that we're going to say. So, Julia, why don't you start? I'll see if I can pick out the lie.

24:56 JULIA: For sure and I hope I haven't, like cheated by like including one of these statements because you know, here we go. But alright.

25:02 SYDNEY: We'll see. I'll be the judge of that. [Laughs]

25:04 JULIA: Well, we'll see. OK, first statement. Innovation is simpler than you think, and not just synonymous with invention. U Calgary is the number one startup creator among research institutions in Canada for three years running. And innovation is a linear process.

25:22 SYDNEY: Oh well, I think I know this one. Maybe. Uh. Pause for the audience, get your guesses in, say it out loud. I can hear you in my head. I believe three is the lie.

25:42 JULIA: That's correct. Innovation is definitely not linear.

25:52 JULIA:  That's very cool about the university, though I didn't know. Can you repeat that?

25:53 JULIA: Oh, yeah. You know, just the number one startup creator among research institutions, you know, three years running, you know, take that. You gotta put in that. You know the key message.

25:56 SYDNEY: Yeah, I mean, it just goes back to what we were saying before about the Calgary community for, like, really cares about these startups and really cares about innovators. And. Yeah, of course, to the first statement, the first thing I thought of too was that everyone's an innovator in different ways like getting started is so much simpler and most people are already there, they just don't have that mindset yet. OK, I took a slightly different tack with how I was thinking about these innovations. I did more of a historical one versus like related to the social impact lab or the university. So we'll see a few concepts.

26:34 JULIA: I'm a little nervous and I play a lot of Baldur’s gate and so I feel I failed this like history check on like on my dial here so...

26:40 SYDNEY: That's OK. We'll see. Again. It's not perfect. It's not a perfect thing, but these are more about innovations of times past. OK. OK, so first statement. The Slinky was originally designed for military purposes. Number two, relevant to certainly a lot of how we do our practice in the social impact lab. Post it notes were initially developed as a solution to prevent him markers from falling out of books. So it was a low tech adhesive that allowed for easy removal without damaging the pages.

27:17 JULIA: Oh my goodness

27:19 SYDNEY: And number three, almost 20 years before the iPad, Apple released a similar product that had a touch screen capability and was portable.

27:30 JULIA: Oh my... I hope the audience is doing better at this than I am I think I just kind of gullible sometimes.

27:36 SYDNEY: Like you're wow. Those are all great facts.

27:38 JULIA: That sounds good, that sounds cool. I would feel like it would be the apple one because I'm thinking just touch screen before like but palm pilot no? Like I want to believe the slinky is cool. I don't know how the military, the military versus team. Maybe the military wouldn't use it. The slinky actually, maybe it is the slinky. Is that the lie?

28:00 SYDNEY: That one is actually true. Yeah. OK. So we'll go through, OK, yeah.

28:04 JULIA: Is the lie the Apple?

28:05 SYDNEY: No! The lie is actually the post it notes, but it's a common misconception that that's what it was designed. It was actually they were trying to make a really strong adhesive and they failed. And then that's how we got the post it. No, because they were like actually this is decent application for something else. Thank you to the makers of the original post. It note because I use them all the time. Yeah 3M. The slinky was invented by a man named Richard James, who envisioned it as a stabilizing device for ship equipment. And then it just became a children's toy instead, because ship ship.

28:53 JULIA: Ship equipment, would that be in the Navy instead of the military, though.

28:56 SYDNEY: OK, well, you know I think that's related.

29:00 JULIA: You've led me astray, and yeah, I definitely would. Yeah, I heard of 100% gotten it.

29:07 SYDNEY: Exactly. And then for the Apple product in 1993, Apple released the Apple Newton, which was halfway between a computer and an electrics organizer. Electronic organizer, I should say. And but customers weren't ready for it, and it failed as an innovation. And then, you know, in 2000, whatever 2010, I think we got the iPad, a lot of the same concepts, but it took off. So, yeah, I think there's a lesson in there about setting out to do one thing and then something else actually happens, and that's also like speaks to the nonlinear part of innovation that you're talking about earlier.

29:41 JULIA: Definitely. Having to go back and reiterate or you know. Sometimes people are so solution focused rather than like addressing the problem focused too and I think that's where sometimes people like absolute stutter and pause. There's like, oh, I've got the greatest solution, but they haven't talked to anyone or what people use this, like, the sling. I don't know who's doing a slinky thing.

30:06 SYDNEY: But well, yeah, I'm not sure exactly why it didn't work as a stabilizing device. But then it had this whole other application that you know, Mr. James probably didn't consider when he set up to do it, but maybe that's a good something to something to leave everybody with is, even if you think that you have a great idea or even if you think that you don't have a great idea going through the innovation process isn't necessarily about making sure that that idea is the one or what have you. It's about. Yeah. Coming up with a solution to a problem. And there's lots of ways that, that, that can happen and there is a whole process and people who do this all the time that can help you through it. Julia, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights into the world of research and innovation listeners. If you've enjoyed this conversation, be sure to check out the Now Innovating podcast and show.

30:57 JULIA: Yes, thank you so much for having me. And I really have to acknowledge my Co-producer Cody Coates, who does Now Innovating with me, is not a one person operation for sure and much like how you have Lynn helping you here, I could not do this without Cody. So thank you. Cody Coates. And yeah, please check out Now Innovating. And thanks for having me.

31:15 SYDNEY: Perfect. Yes, thank you. Again. Shout out to Cody and also for listeners, you can look for more episodes of Responsible Disruption wherever you get your podcasts until next time.

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That's all for today's episode of Responsible Disruption. Thank you for tuning in and we hope you found the conversation valuable. If you did, don't forget to follow, rate, and share wherever you get your podcasts. To stay up to date on future episodes and show notes, visit our website at thesocialimpactlab.com or follow us on social media and until next time, keep on designing a better world.