S2, Ep. 7 - A Tale of IP Protection

May 29, 2024

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Welcome to another episode of Responsible Disruption. I'm your host, James Gammage, and today we have an inspiring and hopefully enlightening discussion lined up for you. We're diving into the world of innovation, entrepreneurship and the importance of protecting intellectual property. Joining us today are two remarkable local individuals who have recently been at the forefront of these issues. First, we have Connor Curran, the founder and co-owner of Local Laundry, a Canadian made clothing company on a mission to make a positive impact Connor's journey as an entrepreneur began with a fateful run in with his washing machine in 2015, sparking the idea to make Local Laundry for everyone. Since then, Local Laundry has grown into a brand known for its high quality apparel and commitment to social good. Connor's dedication to using business as a force for positive change has earned him recognition as a Top 40 under 40 and has inspired countless others to follow in his footsteps. We're also joined by Brett Colvin, the CEO of Goodlawyer, a legal firm revolutionizing legal services for businesses. Brett's journey into legal services began after nearly five years of experiencing the inefficiencies and frustrations of traditional law firms. In 2019, he decided to take matters into his own hands and together with his founders, Parker, Tom and Grant set out to create a more efficient and business focused legal service. Goodlawyer has since served over 5000 founders, business executives, and legal teams across Canada, providing top tier legal talent and innovative solutions tailored to each client's unique needs. Today's episode revolves around protecting innovation, focusing on the incredible story of how Local Laundry face challenges in protecting its intellectual property, and how Goodlawyer navigated the legal complexities. So welcome Connor and Brett. Great to have you here.


Thanks so much for having us excited to be here.

02:12 JAMES: Cool. So in some respects this is a made in Calgary tale of two entrepreneurs and how they work together to repel the big guys. So we will explore that, but first off, let's understand a little bit more about local laundering, Goodlawyer. So Connor, first off, you're well known to anyone at United Way and who attends United Way events. And in my introduction, I talked a little bit about Local Laundry and how it started. But can you tell the listeners about the company and the role of your design in the development of the company and how is the design in service of your mission?

02:52 CONNOR: Absolutely. Well, again, thanks so much for having us on the show. We're really excited to be here. For those that don't know, my name Connor Currant. I'm one of the co-owners of Local Laundry, a Canadian made clothing company that aims to build community and everything that we do. And that really started back when I lost that fight to that washing machine back in 2015. And I really just kind of saw the value in clothing. And how clothing can bring people together, how it can showcase values and use those values to connect people and build a community of people with shared values. And the design is everything, and communicating that design, telling us story and it's the biggest part of a clothing company. When designs are done right, they can really bring people together, connect people on a higher level.

03:42 JAMES: Cool. That's great. And Brett, can you tell us about how Goodlawyers started and what was your inspiration and what problem were you trying to solve within the legal industry.


Well, I think for me, I've always been a bit of an entrepreneur since I was a kid, and that is definitely an unusual personality in the world of law, for the most part. And really, when I started working in the big firm, I was honestly quite surprised at how inefficient and lacking innovation that environment was. I was known in my early years around the firm as Mr. Ideas Guy, which was certainly not a compliment in the big firm. So the idea for Goodlawyer started percolating fairly early in my career, even as far back as law school. That's when I first bought the domains. After a little interaction with my old coffee guy, "Be a Goodlawyer," he said, and it really stuck. But then the final nail in the coffin for me was one of the senior partners coming into my office one day and slamming the door. His face was red, and I just remember him saying, "Brett, keep coming up with your ideas. Just keep them to yourself." And for me, that was the final straw — the moment where I knew that there was no way that I was going to be able to innovate and build a service offering that I really felt proud of and could stand behind. Six months later, roughly, I left the big firm and embarked on this Goodlawyer journey and haven't really looked back since.

05:25 JAMES: So an entrepreneur, undoubtedly and obviously when you started getting Goodlawyer, you also quite quickly, became involved in helping startups and scale ups with the legal matters. Can you tell us how that happened and also what kind of services you offer to businesses like Local Laundry?

05:46 BRETT: Yeah, in the early days, the idea was painfully simple, I felt. A lot of this actually came from having run a painting franchise business before law school and learning how to quote and estimate the price of services. When I got to the big firm, I was quite surprised, to say the least, that nobody quoted anything, nobody estimated the costs, and all of the risk was assumed by the client. Then I saw the incentives internally for associates and even partners to hit your quota, hit your target for the year, which just meant bill as many hours, as many 0.16 minute intervals as you possibly could. So the original idea for Goodlawyer was, let's put a website online that allows businesses and lawyers to interact and for lawyers to provide fixed fee quotes for basic legal services, whether that's a trademark, we're going to talk about today, all the way up to doing fixed fee M&A transactions. So that was the early genesis of Goodlawyer, this fixed fee legal marketplace. And really, the focus in those early days was on small businesses and startups, folks who were really left behind by the big firms.

Where we've evolved over the last couple of years has been moving upmarket, continuing to serve those early-stage entrepreneurs, but also growing with our most successful businesses that we're working with. What emerged from that evolution was what we call fractional general counsel. Fractional GCs where we embed a senior lawyer who used to work at a big firm like I did, maybe they went and worked at Shopify for a while, but now they want to set out on their own and be their own entrepreneur. We make that really easy for the lawyer and for the businesses. Like Local Laundry, embedding a senior lawyer onto your team on a part-time basis can be a huge game-changer, not just from a cost perspective, but also having that legal expertise tightly intertwined with the business. Because the business context is so important, and that's something that you really miss as an external lawyer working for a company through a law firm. You don't have the precise business context. So that's really where we've gone today, and now starting to also serve some larger enterprise clients with fractional in-house.

08:20 JAMES: And can you provide an overview of what service offerings an organisation or a business like Local Laundry might seek from you? I mean I know you Connor, you've acquired a couple of other businesses recently. You know what kind of services are you offering organizations like Local Laundry?

08:39 BRETT:  So, on the spectrum of legal services, Goodlawyer now has about 165 lawyers across the country, as you noted, and has served over 5,000 businesses. We handle everything from basic corporate governance to a variety of commercial contracting, intellectual property protection, employment matters, regulatory compliance, and also support on transactions. Whether it's Local Laundry or another company looking to protect their brand, again, on the fractional GC front, what we're doing is embedding a lawyer specialized in being a general counsel. The unique aspect of being a general counsel, as opposed to a lawyer working in a narrow practice area at a firm like I used to, is their ability to work with the executive team and cover a broad legal spectrum. They still may need to use specialists sometimes; for example, an in-house GC typically wouldn't handle patents directly, but they're there to support the business's growth, handle enterprise sales, manage the contracting process, grow the team, and navigate specialized regulatory industries. We often place someone who has worked in that industry before and knows the ins and outs of compliance and opportunities for the business.

10:12 JAMES: Thank you. Thanks for that. So I want to get to the story behind this podcast now, which is about trademark protection and just to level set, I looked up a definition of a trademark in the eyes of the Government of Canada, and this is the definition that they use. So a trademark is a combination of letters, words, sounds or designs that distinguishes one company's goods or services from those of others in the marketplace. A trademark is unique. It is important to a company because over time a trademark comes to not only stand for the actual goods and services you sell, but also for your company's reputation and brand. And I think you talked about that, Connor, in your answer. The first question, so you've applied for trademark protection, Connor, and describe what you wanted to protect and why and when you did actually apply for that trademark protection.What help did you and Dustin look for and helping to do that?

11:16 CONNOR: Yeah, one of the fundamental things we misunderstood was the role of the Trademark Office. You have that definition. The Trademark Office, and that's great. So we're a clothing company, and we don't have a ton of assets. Our designs are our assets, our intellectual property are our only viable assets. So we have to do everything in our power to protect those, especially since it's easy for anyone to take a simple or any design and use it as their own, eroding all the goodwill in the community that we've built. We're a values-driven company, giving back and aiming to donate $1,000,000 to local charities. We're entirely Canadian-made, dyed, knitted, milled, cut, sewn, printed, and shipped. You name it, we do it here in Canada. So for someone to use our designs and pass them off as ours, they're benefiting from all the goodwill we've built over time. Our first step was to protect these designs by getting them trademarked. One misunderstanding we had was thinking the Trademark Office would protect them. In reality, the Trademark Office registers trademarks but doesn't enforce them. If someone violates our trademark, it's up to us to take action. This puts small businesses at a disadvantage against larger corporations who have more resources to protect their intellectual property. We don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to go after infringers, so we've had to learn this lesson the hard way. It's definitely an interesting challenge for us and other small businesses.

13:22 BRETT:  So the lawyer may need to dive in a little bit here. Trademarks actually emerge within common law, so you don't have to file anything to have a trademark under common law. What filing for a trademark does is it strengthens your position to defend it. It provides broader coverage, in this case across Canada, and serves as evidence that a design or word mark is important to your company and brand, and that you intend to protect it.

As Connor mentioned, the Trademark Office is primarily there to establish this proof and draw a line in the sand that you want to protect your intellectual property. Registering a trademark gives you better access to legal protections because there's now a documented proof point at the Trademark Office. However, as he pointed out, the Trademark Office doesn't enforce this protection itself. It merely provides the evidence of your registration. As Connor highlighted, when dealing with large enterprise businesses that have significant resources to protect their interests across all aspects of the law, it often creates a David versus Goliath scenario. This was one of the early motivations behind Goodlawyer — to bring greater fairness and balance to a legal system that can leave smaller entities unprotected. The trademark case serves as a clear example of this imbalance.

15:15 JAMES: Yeah, it is. And I did notice the other day on LinkedIn that Dustin posted out that trademark had been applied for was sitting unassessed for four years. Is that normal? And to your point, Brett, do you is the fact that it's been applied for and sitting there, is that all that a lawyer needs to point to in taking up in case on behalf of an organization he feels their trademarks been breached, or do they have to assess it?

15:46 CONNOR: If it's in process, that's still something, but one of the main reasons we're seeking to trademark a lot of our key intellectual property is to protect it not only in Canada but also in the US. However, we can't file for a trademark in the US until it's approved by the Canadian Trademark Office. Currently, our intellectual property has been awaiting assessment for over four years. During this time, it remains vulnerable to being copied and used without our consent in the US every single day. This delay has unfortunately become the new normal. How can small businesses stay competitive and innovative when it takes four years just to get our trademark assessed so we can protect it in the US? It's incredibly frustrating. Dustin, my business partner, is the one who handles these applications. He recently expressed his frustration on LinkedIn. While we understand there have been pandemic-related backlogs, the pandemic has been over for years now. In contrast, the process in the US typically takes only a couple of months. How can we foster innovation and competitiveness for our country's small businesses if we can't secure the rights to protect our intellectual property in a timely manner? That's why we're so frustrated.

17:34 JAMES: Well, I mean it seems like a ridiculous situation and has been borne out. Can you share the story of when you felt there was an issue with your trademark.

17:46 CONNOR:  You know, we're all about building community, and our biggest support comes from our community. We're very lucky and thankful that when there's a potential issue in the marketplace, it's usually our community who discovers it first and lets us know. One day, I received a message from one of our customers saying there was a confusingly similar design in a big box store here in Canada. Lo and behold, I went down and indeed, it was confusingly similar. This is exactly what a trademark is supposed to protect against — if there's a likelihood of confusion in the marketplace regarding who owns that intellectual property. The other thing is, if it's about 75% similar or enough to make people question if it's ours, that's when people start messaging me, thinking we're collaborating with that store or congratulating us. But that's not us. This happens cyclically; designs and inspirations are shared. There's no such thing as a completely original idea when you break it down. Our usual course of action is to approach the situation with kindness. We open up communication and explain that this design is trademarked, we've been using it for years, and show why it could cause confusion in the marketplace. Usually, nine times out of ten, especially if it's a fellow small business owner who understands the situation, they agree to take down the design. This isn't the first time it's happened, and it won't be the last, especially when something becomes popular and inspires others.

When they disagreed and no action was taken, we turned to our community for support — the ones who always have our back. We posted about it, asking for their opinions on whether there was potential for confusion in the marketplace. The response was overwhelming, with more and more people reaching out and the media getting involved. After pressure from our community and the media, the organization finally backed down and agreed to remove the designs. Meanwhile, they had been selling them across the country in multiple stores and on multiple products, causing significant potential for confusion in the marketplace. When this happened, my first call was to Brett. We knew we couldn't face this organization alone, especially when dealing with their lawyers. Brett picked up immediately and assured me he had it under control. He said, "I have the Michael Jordan of intellectual property lawyers on my side."

21:24 CONNOR: I gotta put my best guy on it, you know? It was like a wave hitting us because as a small business, we have a thousand things to juggle — making sales, running a warehouse, handling shipping and customer service, launching new products — and then this issue pops up. It's the last thing we want to deal with. So being able to call someone and hear them say, "I got you, no problem," was a huge relief. The next question is always about cost, and when he said, "Don't worry about it, we'll figure it out and make it work within your budget," that was really special. It speaks volumes about the support we get from our community. Having Goodlawyer in our corner, with a team of lawyers we can actually afford, allows us to go toe-to-toe with these big organizations. It's one of the most powerful tools we have to operate as a small business and protect our intellectual property.

22:17 JAMES: Yeah, that's such a good story. So Brett, you had you got the phone call from Connor, you had Michael Jordan waiting in the wings or the...

22:27 CONNOR: It just, it should be going, we call him Michael Jordan.

22:27 JAMES: Yeah. What did you do? And how did you approach the case?

22:34 BRETT: Yeah, I knew that budget was going to be a key pain point, so I called Arami and worked out a pro bono starting place. We could provide some initial support without adding any burden to Carter and deal with this seemingly critical and momentous issue related to one of your most popular designs. We were able to get Ramming on the case and provide enough initial legal support to move the ball. Ultimately, if I'm not mistaken, Big Bad Box Store took down and stopped selling the shirts with the design that was obviously a knockoff of something core to the Local Laundry brand. That goes back to part of the reason we started Goodlawyer. I saw a ton of lawyers who were miserable working in big firms and hoping for something different, but even more importantly, we wanted to support entrepreneurs and business owners who should be treated fairly in the market. Having a war chest to hire the Kirkland Ellises of the world just didn’t sit right with me. I was very happy to take that phone call from my buddy Connor and do what we could to support him and get through this bit of tabulation.

24:17 CONNOR: And it wasn't just about communicating with their lawyers. There was so much more. Holistically, we suddenly had a strategy for how we'd go after this. We were coached on what to say and what not to say in the media to avoid any missteps that could screw up the potential outcome. We all of a sudden felt empowered again because it's a loss of power and control for a small business. It's terrifying.

24:48 BRETT: It's scary.

24:52 CONNOR: They could go after you for anything, even personally. For a while, we sat on this for a couple of months, unsure of what to do because we didn't want the hassle. It's scary going toe-to-toe with Goliath. But as a small business owner, you have to stand up for what is right because otherwise, larger organizations will feel like they can walk all over you. I think having Goodlawyer has put a lot of these big corporations on notice, especially with all the media coverage. They now realize they can't just do whatever they want and take inspiration from small businesses anymore. The tables have turned, and the tides have shifted.

25:43 BRETT: Everyone needs a Goodlawyer. My friend needs a Goodlawyer.

25:45 JAMES: Yeah, you take that one up nicely. And just incidentally, if anyone wants to look online, they can see online the story, it's shared quite openly and you can see the designs and the like.

26:02 JAMES: Obviously the situation has been resolved now. How permanent does that feel to you? Have you faced up to the fragility of your design and the success of your organization as a result of the your experience?

26:19 CONNOR: Yeah, it's kind of come full circle. When we first started this journey, we thought getting a trademark would prevent anyone from copying us. We believed that simply showing the trademark would be enough. Our mindset shifted through this process. Initially, we felt unstoppable with the trademark, like we had won a victory. Then we felt so defeated and vulnerable. But now, we've come out the other side feeling energized. We know this will happen again, and we're almost excited for it because we see nothing but opportunity. With Goodlawyer in our corner, we're ready to take on anyone who tries us. When everything went down, the amount of PR and media coverage we received was more than our money's worth in terms of getting our name out there. Many people reference us now, and those who had never heard of us before are now long-term customers. We feel invincible again, knowing that if this happens again, no problem—we'll just call Brett and he'll take care of everything.

27:40 JAMES: That's such a great entrepreneurs way of looking at it. You could be crippled by this fragility of your organization, but you're looking at it as an empowering experience.

27:49 BRETT: Well, beyond just having a Goodlawyer in your pocket, which is definitely a valuable asset or partnership, being an entrepreneur and a successful one is about rolling with the punches, learning, and evolving as you go. For Connor, there's a bit more light in the tunnel now. He can see a little further and knows how to deal with issues that were completely foreign to him at first. Coming out the other side, arguably very successfully, with the PR and the successful stop to selling the design that was a knockoff of his, is an example of his growth as an entrepreneur. Anyone listening to this podcast who wants to be an entrepreneur should prepare themselves to get hit over and over again. You just have to keep getting back up, learning from your mistakes, or learning from things you never could have anticipated, and continuing to persevere. Ultimately, being a successful entrepreneur is all about perseverance, and I know this guy has that in spades.

29:19 JAMES: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

29:20 CONNOR: Every problem there's opportunity and it's hard to see when it hits you smack dab in the face like it did with us. Yeah, but there was so much opportunity that came out of this that I'm very grateful that it did happen. And so it's kind of helped us shift our mindset that anytime a major issue comes up, we just got to look at It as an opportunity.

29:45 JAMES: So it sounds like Connor went through all the right processes and I wouldn't say they were...

29:51 BRETT: I wouldn’t say they were alright, but we go to the finish line [laughs]

29:52 JAMES:  Well, so you navigated it and you feel as though you're in a great position now. So we want this to be of value to other small businesses and entrepreneurs. So Brett, what are some of the things that those small businesses and entrepreneurs can do to protect their intellectual property, from a process point of view, what would you advise?

30:16 BRETT: I would say that you don't want to jump the gun, but you definitely want to start thinking about it early. It's not intellectual property related, but for anyone thinking about a startup, the most important thing you can do on day one, once you've incorporated your company, is to have some form of founders' agreement. This agreement should include a vesting schedule for your co-founders or co-owners, the folks starting the business with you. It's incredibly rare that all of the people who start a startup finish it...

30:56 CONNOR: Can you explain what a vesting schedule is?

30:57 BRETT: Yeah, a vesting schedule is crucial. In my instance, with my three co-founders when we started Goodlawyer, on day one we knew we wanted to build this thing together. We all agreed, hypothetically, to get 1/4 of the company. We wanted that percentage of equity, our ownership of the company, to vest over time. For example, in year one, maybe you get 1/4 of that equity, in year two another quarter, and so on. This is really important because the number one way startups fail is due to co-founder breakdown. If a co-founder leaves six months in but still owns 1/4 of the company, you now have dead weight on your cap table, making it nearly impossible to raise capital and distorting the incentives of the remaining founders. A founder vesting schedule is super important on day one for early-stage startups, and generally for businesses. Regarding IP, we trademarked Goodlawyer before we ever sold anything. Starting the business with a legal background gave me a head start, but assessing your strategic goals is key. Look as far ahead as possible and think about what is important to your business. For example, do you have a lot of machinery that drives a manufacturing business, or is your company asset-light with IP as the core asset?

For us, we built a software platform and are now building a second one. There's a tremendous amount of IP in that, but we're iterating so fast that getting a patent on the software doesn’t make sense. However, building out our brand and protecting Goodlawyer and the various products and services we sell in Canada, and now looking at the US, has been critical from day one. Brand is super important in the legal services market. We’ve been very intentional about protecting our trademarks, as they relate to our brand, with the resources we have. This is a key part of our investment story moving forward, as we continue to protect these intellectual property assets, most notably trademarks, because we know how important brand is to our business.

33:49 JAMES: Yeah. And if you're not a lawyer and not a legal company, is the trademark protection process, is that a cost effective thing to do? Is it expensive for a startup to do?

34:03 BRETT: Again, everything's relative. In the grand scheme of things, protecting a trademark is not hugely expensive. We still offer fixed-fee trademark services at Goodlawyer. You can visit goodlawyer.ca, and we can help you out. Even for us, you have to be selective about what you're trademarking. As Arami would put it, you have to be surgical in deciding where you want those protections. If you want to protect the Local Laundry brand in every country in the world, that's going to be expensive. If you want to protect it in Canada and the US, it's much more reasonable. For Goodlawyer today, we know we’re entering the US market, so we have been making some filings in the US, taking advantage of treaty protections between Canada and the US to get our trademarks in line as early as possible. That's as far as we've taken it so far, but we're also thinking about the UK and will start to look into the trademark strategy for the UK in the relatively near future. It's really about identifying the core pieces of your brand that are super important and have longevity, and then being surgical about applying for those filings to get the protection you need in the markets you actually care about.

35:34 CONNOR: And I will say as a small business owner, it might seem like a lot of money up front. It certainly was for us especially when you don't have a lot of money but the return on investment has paid back a hundredfold.

35:48 CONNOR: Right, because of scenarios like this, and while it doesn't give you a ton of protection in itself, it gives you a leg to stand on in order to fight.

36:00 BRETT: Yeah, I touched on this at the beginning—trademarks emerge out of common law, so you don't need to file anything to get some protections. Local Laundry is so well-known in Calgary that common law would likely recognize they have a trademark in Calgary, maybe even in Alberta. However, by filing it, that protection extends across the country. If you ever have to go to battle over your trademark, it's going to be much more cost-effective if you can point to a registration date or a filing date. This is far better than having to run intensive surveys in the community to prove there's confusion with the brand you've been building for years.

36:43 JAMES: Yeah. So you talked earlier about how you perhaps found the the the whole situation empowering Connor, but looking back on it, what are your key takeaways from your experience? And maybe you know your takeaways about your relationship with Goodlawyer and having Brett and his team a phone call away as well.

37:03 CONNOR: Yeah, it kind of goes back to what we mentioned earlier—there's potential in every crisis, as Winston Churchill says, "don't waste a good crisis." Yes, it's scary, but taking action sooner and more aggressively can make a big difference. To Brett's point, take the time when there's not a crisis to set yourself up for success, protect yourself, and build that legal and strategic moat around your intellectual property. Another big lesson I learned is to invest in your community and relationships. If I hadn't been so invested in Brett and our relationship over the years, he might not have picked up. Well, actually, he would have picked up anyway. But having the support of our community was crucial. We strongly believe in investing in our community. When I received that message questioning what was going on, I shared it on social media, and people poured in with their outrage, shock, and disbelief. This support extended to the media, and Brett and his team also stepped in. Investing in your community pays off. These investments come back a hundredfold when you need them most. We needed help and support in our moment of despair, and our community came through for us. The power of communities is incredible.

38:36 BRETT: Couldn't agree more.

38:37 JAMES: Yeah, that's come across a hundredfold in the last half an hour.

38:41 CONNOR: Especially in a city like Calgary, which has a small-town feel, you never want to burn a bridge. You never know where the next opportunity will come from or who can introduce you to whom. Relationships are crucial in business everywhere, but even more so in Calgary. Make sure to take care of your relationships and your business will benefit greatly.

39:02 JAMES: That feels like a good way place to leave it. But however, I always when I'm doing these podcasts, take the time to put the final question to our guests. So if there's anything that you haven't mentioned and you feel you should mention or if you want to leave our listeners with one final message, it's over to you.

39:23 BRETT: I'll echo Connor's point about the importance of community, which has been a key focus of Goodlawyer's early success. A lot of that comes down to giving more than you take. For us, that means driving more cost-effective and accessible legal services, as well as hosting events and acting as connectors within the community. We've created space for myself and my team to engage with the community and for people building businesses across Calgary and beyond to come together and collaborate in ways they might not have otherwise. On that note, our third and final Collision Yacht Party will be in Toronto on June 18th. If any listeners are in Toronto for the big conference, reach out to me on LinkedIn. We'd love to have you on the boat!

40:31 JAMES: That's a great invitation. Connor, are you gonna be on the boat?

40:38 CONNOR: Every year I try to make it out.

40:40 BRETT: I feel like we don't make it happen in here.

40:43 CONNOR: I've heard wonders about this party. So I'm dying to go. You're not in tech. But I just want to go on this yacht party. For us, it goes back into the community, just everyone out there listening continue to support small business, continue to support Canadian made where you can and when you can. We're very lucky that a lot a lot of corporations company, they choose to support Canadian made when it comes to their swag, their team clothing for branding and that kind of thing. And they choose Local Laundry because of our values and that means the world to us. So just wanted to thank everyone in our community for supporting us and supporting Canadian made and supporting local and small business. So I want to thank you for giving us the platform to come on here and have a chat. Thank you.

41:35 JAMES: You're welcome. You're welcome. So thank you very much, Connor. Thanks very much, Brett. It's really struck me in talking to you what a great Calgary community story this is. So thank you for sharing that with us. And you know, and ongoing good luck with Goodlawyer and Local Laundry. They're great local organizations and it's great when we hear them working together so nicely, so, so be sure to check out the websites of Local Laundry, Goodlawyer. They will be in our show notes and you can learn more about their work and how they're making a positive impact to the community here in Calgary in their respective industries. So thank you very much again for to both of you. And then until next time, please stay inspired and keep innovating.

42:23 CONNOR: Thank you.

[Outro music]

42:27 JAMES: That's all for today's episode of Responsible Disruption. Thank you for tuning in and we hope you found the conversation valuable. If you did, don't forget to follow, rate, and share wherever you get your podcasts. To stay up to date on future episodes and show notes, visit our website at thesocialimpactlab.com or follow us on social and until next time, keep on designing a better world.